: Hi Ben,

: This is my first post on this Forum. I have been reading Rumor
: Mill for almost a year now, but I have never felt compelled
: to write anything on it until now. Actually, I wrote part
: of this last week in response to another one of you posts,
: but I thought better of it and did not post it at that
: time.

: However, this last post of yours has made me finally gather up
: my courage and post on this Forum for the first time.

: Ben, if a Jew can't stand up to Rogue Butterfly and Mark

: Seeley without demanding that they be censored, then you
: are pointing all of us to a Police State with you as the
: chief enforcer.

: In this post I would like to mention a number of the things
: you have posted on this Forum. In one post you defended the
: Rabbis who wrote the Talmud. Forgive me if I have
: misunderstood something you have written but...

: it seems to me that you are using the same logic to defend
: the Talmud that you use to condemn Rogue Butterfly.

: Can you please explain to me why it is okay for Rabbis in the
: days the Talmud was put together, to duscuss issues in an
: open forum and include dissenting arguments, unpopular
: beliefs and "...comments... that are off-color,
: insensitive, or just plain stupid"-- to use your own
: words -- and on the other hand, YOU advocate banning Rogue
: Butterfly and others from this Forum. Can you see how your
: positions condridict each other?

: If I misunderstood you, I apologize. I do not own a Talmud, I
: cannot confirm or deny that the Talmud says these things,
: however, you have not denied that it does say these things,
: so I must conclude that the Talmud does state the things
: Rogue Butterfly says it states. If so, I am as shocked and
: horrified, as is Rogue Butterfly.

: You stated there were Rabbis that were as shocked as I am, and
: if these Rabbis wrote their shock and horror, then these
: Rabbis have served the same purpose, in their day that you
: and others are serving today in regards to the Rumor Mill
: News Forum. In other words, it appears as if ancient
: Judaism was much more tolerant than today's Jews, if you
: are an example. But then again, maybe you aren't even
: Jewish. Maybe you are just a trouble maker. It appears the
: Jews who put together the Talmud allowed everyone,
: including the perverts to have their say. If you really are
: a Jew, would you have allowed the part about having sex
: with children to be put into the Talmud? Would you have
: censored it as you are trying to censor this free speech
: form.

: What you are doing is making everyone believe that in today's
: world, anyone who criticizes anything Jewish is labeled an
: antisemite. By your own actions you are making Rogue
: Butterfly more credible.

: If Rogue Butterfly has quoted the Talmud inaccurately, then
: you need to bring in a Rabbi who can explain this to us. If
: these quotes are indeed in the Talmud, then it is the
: responsibility of every Jew, if you are Jew, then this
: responsibility falls on your shouldars... to look into this
: and either explain it fully or condemn it. You need to
: convene a synod to investigate, determine the meaning, and
: then fully explain what the Talmud means when it calls all
: non Jewish people "cattle" and says it is all
: right to rape, murder and cheat them. If Roge Butterfly has
: stated these things wrong, then you need to take it upon
: yourself to fully explain it. Don't you understand your own
: Tulmud enough to be able to defend it from someone like
: Rogue Butterfly. If the Synod discovers that at one time
: there were Jews who believed these things, then those
: things should be disavowed or condemned and deleted from
: the Talmud. Maybe it is time for Jews to look at who has
: been a Jew in the past.

: There are many Catholic Priests who are pedophiles. When they
: are discovered they are condemned and the practice of
: pedophilia is not condoned by the Catholic church even
: though many high ranking Catholic priests are pedophiles.
: Perversions exist in all religions and groups. If perverts
: infiltrated the Jewish faith during the middle ages, then
: Jews should admit that there are Jews who are or were
: perverts who were part of their religion. The Catholics
: have admitted this. Why can't Jews admit this?

: Having sex with children is not something that most adults
: will ever condone. If this is part of the Talmud, then it
: is up to you and other Jews to look into this and correct
: it. If you don't, it will be used against you forever.

: If you have a group of people within your ranks who are
: bringing shame to the rest of you -- no matter how old or
: sacred these people are -- they need to be evicted like the
: infected sore they are. The Catholics are beginning to do
: it. Why can't you?

: Again -- if I misunderstood your earlier articles, please
: forgive me and correct my thinking. I am not anti-semetic.
: Until I started reading Rogue Butterfly I had never given
: the Jewish question much thought one way or another. I am
: one of the people who has always believed they were the
: victims.

: As I read the newspapers and see what is happening in the
: middle east, I begin to wonder if the victims of Hitler and
: now more like Hitler than their forefathers who were his
: victims.

: Bill Fuller

: ps My wife just read this and said she does't think Ben is
: your first name. She says she thinks that is a title. If it
: is, then I apologize. Most Christians know nothing about
: the Jewish faith. Ben, if you really are a Jew and not
: someone who is just coming in here to cause problems, then
: why don't you teach us what YOU know about Jews? Most
: people who read and post on this forum seem to have open
: minds. We are not anti semetic and this Forum is not an
: Aryan Hate Forum --

: My wife says she think you are an ADL plant who is trying to
: get this webpage labeled a "hate webpage". Before
: we read your replies to Rogue Butterfly, we both dimissed
: her as a well educated crank. Now we have decided that we
: need to explore what she has said further.

: What you have succeeded in doing is drawing attention to her
: and making two more people interested in getting at the
: truth. The more people like you call for censorship of
: groups and forums like this, the more people like me and my
: wife will start to explore the things Rogue Butterfly is
: saying.

: Posted earlier by Ben
Mr. Fuller,
That was a very thoughtful and well written article. May I take this time to welcome you to the forum. I apologize for the new gentleman who just showed up and seems to be stalking everybody around calling them names and using such phrases as rant, attack and so on. I don't know what gets into people these days. It must be somekind of mass hysteria.
At any rate, we are glad to have you aboard. You don't have to be so shy, 99% of the people here are very well mannered.