: Hi Ben,

: This is my first post on this Forum. I have been reading Rumor
: Mill for almost a year now, but I have never felt compelled
: to write anything on it until now. Actually, I wrote part
: of this last week in response to another one of you posts,
: but I thought better of it and did not post it at that
: time.

: However, this last post of yours has made me finally gather up
: my courage and post on this Forum for the first time.

: Ben, if a Jew can't stand up to Rogue Butterfly and Mark

: Seeley without demanding that they be censored, then you
: are pointing all of us to a Police State with you as the
: chief enforcer.

: In this post I would like to mention a number of the things
: you have posted on this Forum. In one post you defended the
: Rabbis who wrote the Talmud. Forgive me if I have
: misunderstood something you have written but...

: it seems to me that you are using the same logic to defend
: the Talmud that you use to condemn Rogue Butterfly.

: Can you please explain to me why it is okay for Rabbis in the
: days the Talmud was put together, to duscuss issues in an
: open forum and include dissenting arguments, unpopular
: beliefs and "...comments... that are off-color,
: insensitive, or just plain stupid"-- to use your own
: words -- and on the other hand, YOU advocate banning Rogue
: Butterfly and others from this Forum. Can you see how your
: positions condridict each other?

: If I misunderstood you, I apologize. I do not own a Talmud, I
: cannot confirm or deny that the Talmud says these things,
: however, you have not denied that it does say these things,
: so I must conclude that the Talmud does state the things
: Rogue Butterfly says it states. If so, I am as shocked and
: horrified, as is Rogue Butterfly.

: You stated there were Rabbis that were as shocked as I am, and
: if these Rabbis wrote their shock and horror, then these
: Rabbis have served the same purpose, in their day that you
: and others are serving today in regards to the Rumor Mill
: News Forum. In other words, it appears as if ancient
: Judaism was much more tolerant than today's Jews, if you
: are an example. But then again, maybe you aren't even
: Jewish. Maybe you are just a trouble maker. It appears the
: Jews who put together the Talmud allowed everyone,
: including the perverts to have their say. If you really are
: a Jew, would you have allowed the part about having sex
: with children to be put into the Talmud? Would you have
: censored it as you are trying to censor this free speech
: form.

: What you are doing is making everyone believe that in today's
: world, anyone who criticizes anything Jewish is labeled an
: antisemite. By your own actions you are making Rogue
: Butterfly more credible.

: If Rogue Butterfly has quoted the Talmud inaccurately, then
: you need to bring in a Rabbi who can explain this to us. If
: these quotes are indeed in the Talmud, then it is the
: responsibility of every Jew, if you are Jew, then this
: responsibility falls on your shouldars... to look into this
: and either explain it fully or condemn it. You need to
: convene a synod to investigate, determine the meaning, and
: then fully explain what the Talmud means when it calls all
: non Jewish people "cattle" and says it is all
: right to rape, murder and cheat them. If Roge Butterfly has
: stated these things wrong, then you need to take it upon
: yourself to fully explain it. Don't you understand your own
: Tulmud enough to be able to defend it from someone like
: Rogue Butterfly. If the Synod discovers that at one time
: there were Jews who believed these things, then those
: things should be disavowed or condemned and deleted from
: the Talmud. Maybe it is time for Jews to look at who has
: been a Jew in the past.

: There are many Catholic Priests who are pedophiles. When they
: are discovered they are condemned and the practice of
: pedophilia is not condoned by the Catholic church even
: though many high ranking Catholic priests are pedophiles.
: Perversions exist in all religions and groups. If perverts
: infiltrated the Jewish faith during the middle ages, then
: Jews should admit that there are Jews who are or were
: perverts who were part of their religion. The Catholics
: have admitted this. Why can't Jews admit this?

: Having sex with children is not something that most adults
: will ever condone. If this is part of the Talmud, then it
: is up to you and other Jews to look into this and correct
: it. If you don't, it will be used against you forever.

: If you have a group of people within your ranks who are
: bringing shame to the rest of you -- no matter how old or
: sacred these people are -- they need to be evicted like the
: infected sore they are. The Catholics are beginning to do
: it. Why can't you?

: Again -- if I misunderstood your earlier articles, please
: forgive me and correct my thinking. I am not anti-semetic.
: Until I started reading Rogue Butterfly I had never given
: the Jewish question much thought one way or another. I am
: one of the people who has always believed they were the
: victims.

: As I read the newspapers and see what is happening in the
: middle east, I begin to wonder if the victims of Hitler and
: now more like Hitler than their forefathers who were his
: victims.

: Bill Fuller

: ps My wife just read this and said she does't think Ben is
: your first name. She says she thinks that is a title. If it
: is, then I apologize. Most Christians know nothing about
: the Jewish faith. Ben, if you really are a Jew and not
: someone who is just coming in here to cause problems, then
: why don't you teach us what YOU know about Jews? Most
: people who read and post on this forum seem to have open
: minds. We are not anti semetic and this Forum is not an
: Aryan Hate Forum --

: My wife says she think you are an ADL plant who is trying to
: get this webpage labeled a "hate webpage". Before
: we read your replies to Rogue Butterfly, we both dimissed
: her as a well educated crank. Now we have decided that we
: need to explore what she has said further.

: What you have succeeded in doing is drawing attention to her
: and making two more people interested in getting at the
: truth. The more people like you call for censorship of
: groups and forums like this, the more people like me and my
: wife will start to explore the things Rogue Butterfly is
: saying.

: Posted earlier by Ben

I agree with the censorship issue but alas A Rogue Butterfly by any other name is still a Rogue Butterfly