I lost my password - hence the guest listing...
After the FIRST post in this thread was done, I sent a reply to Rayelan to post. However, her computer was down so therefore it never went through.
After it got so wild, I was glad it got missed. I really didn't want to become part of the firefight.
I re-decided to post it because I want to add the tag on at the bottom.
I haven't changed a word of the original - but do feel free to tab through this old worn out subject to the bottom where the new juice is.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jocelyn Savage [mailto:jocelyn@the-i.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 3:39 PM - NOTE THE DATE THAT THIS WAS FIRST WRITTEN
To: Rayelan
Subject: RE: The Hidden Symbolism of David Icke
Hi Rayelan,
I've lost my password again (sorry) - would you repost this? I appreciate your doing it and apologize for the inconvenience.
All the best to you,
Jocelyn
P.S. I hope you're doing well!!
-------------------
Hi Novaliz,
There are some interesting assumptions here.
David Icke's webmaster is my husband. So, although, I'm not responsible for content, I'm aware of much of the challenges and blessings in working with the site. So I'll give it my best shot to answer some of this.
>> The Hidden Symbolism of David Icke?
>> Firstly, I do not know David Icke, nor have I ever met him. What I have written therefore should not be taken as a verdict on David Icke, the man, nor as a judgement on his intentions. All I can do is point to disturbing signs at www.davidicke.com (perhaps it is significant that even the address forces us to type a profane word)
Wow. That one took me a minute to figure out. In two and a half years of typing that name in, I never saw that word! Guess you've got to have that kind of mindset....
>> Secondly, they are only a few miscellaneous thoughts on the subject, but I think they may prove important nonetheless.
>> The first thing to note is that there is a lot of articles on the site exposing the power of symbolism and detailing the power of symbolism to influence the mind on a subconscious level when the meaning is implied by the symbolism, but the viewer does not recognise it at a conscious level. The real meaning is hidden behind the symbolism. So let us, in this spirit, examine the symbolism behind David's portal page.
>> It occurred to me that this portal is none other than a perverted representation of the image of the 7th Angel of the Apocalypse (as described in Chapter 10 of Revelation), which is an image I know well and one that has profound significance for our age. For the aspiring truth-seeker this angel stands as one of the guardians of the threshold, permitting entry from the earthly realm to the spiritual realm. (For a better description see my Easter post on the 7th Angel, entitled 'Humanity at the Threshold').
Okay, for the sake of people who haven't been here, I've reproduced every bit of text on the front page so we can examine all this:
www.davidicke.com
[PICTURE HERE]
"When you are constantly moving forward,
searching for the cutting edge,
everyone behind you always
believes you have gone too far.
The further back from the cutting edge they are,
the more extreme and, indeed,
insane, you appear, to them, to be.
In this way, one person's "madness"
can be another's commonsense."
- David Icke -
"Remember that all I am offering is the truth.
Nothing more."
"You take the blue pill and the
story ends. You wake in your
bed and you believe whatever
you want to believe."
"You take the red pill and you
stay in Wonderland and I show
you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
Escape
Enter
Quotes from "The Matrix"
Artwork donated by CygnusVx1
server 2
----------
WELL, I'm missing the apocalyptic angel thing here, but let's go on with the benefit of the doubt....
>> Let us examine how we enter the site. There appears to be a cunning trick involved in entering the site. From our point of view we are clicking the right-hand pill and spurning the left, but from David's point of view we are clicking what could represent David's left hand - are we being asked to approve David's left-handed path?
Ah yes, but does not the viewer have to take the RIGHT path? So does this argument hold any water at all? And since David is not the webmaster and his only entry into the site is through the front door, is he not also taking the RIGHT path?
So the only one who could possibly see it the other way is the webmaster. But, if you have an inkling of webmastering, then you KNOW that you build it as it is seen.
So, the viewer takes the RIGHT path, David takes the RIGHT path and the webmaster directs people to the RIGHT path.
>> The pill we accept is red, the Luciferic colour, the mystical colour.
The quotes state quite clearly that the quotes are from the movie, The Matrix. So are the pills. That's the color they used.
Carrying this your line of...ahem... "logic" further, it would then seem that telling people the truth would be Luciferic.
>> David's picture with the messianic expression leads to a suspicion that David has succumbed to the temptation of egotism, a Luciferic temptation.
Or it could be that the picture is one of the few available and nobody, including the webmaster, can get David to sit down for more pictures. Since there are precious FEW pictures the webmaster can wrangle out of him, the messianic idea flies out the window. Some us only wish he would have just a tiny, teeny bit more ego so we could get more pictures to work with.
>> To enter the site we click the red pill, the Luciferic colour; Lucifer, who wishes for man to lose himself in fantasy, fantasy such as reptilian bloodlines and shape shifting.
Oh, come on! You've really got a lot of time on your hands, don't you?
>> There is another apparent psychological trick. Whereas most sites only have an 'enter' button, we are here seemingly given the choice to 'enter' or 'leave' the site, but no one is going to leave the site they have just arrived at, so all click the enter button - in doing so we have not just entered the site, we have given our approval to the site, we have chosen to enter it when we were given the chance to reject it, we have chosen to follow Icke's lead. This again points to egotism, everyone who visits the site is not simply browsing, but has given their approval to Icke's path.
Well, I thought I would try to counter all this but it's getting more absurd by the minute and I guess the readers of this site are smart enough to see through all this rhetoric. I don't know if I'm going to bother with this part.
>> The portal to the site is a parody of the 7th angel of the Revelation. In 'choosing' to accept the offer of the red pill and so enter the site one is purposely reminded of the words of the angel - "Take it, and eat it". But what we are asked to eat in this case is not the book of wisdom, but a pill, with its unsavoury connotations of drugs - and drugs are a Luciferic temptation, they provide an escape to another world and can lead to hallucinations, compelling images with no objective reality, delusions. The message of our entry pill is that we are to be shown "how deep the rabbit-hole goes", which would be fine if we were then led upwards again to the light.
Naah, this isn't even worth it.
>> To end I would like to state that I have always had an uneasy feeling about David.
Well, that's a relief.
>> On a personal level two people I greatly admire and feel a close affinity with are Annie Besant and Friedrich Nietzsche. This is despite the fact that both were responsible for spreading a degree of deception and untruth throughout the world ..
Out of your own mouth....
>> What can be said without reservation is that the portal bears manifold marks of the influence of demonic powers. We are dealing with an anti-Christian site which no doubt has been influenced by the power of the coming incarnation of the Spirit of Deception
Okay... NOW your intentions are clear. Your belief system has been offended.
Perhaps, a good direction of research might be to absolutely prove that your belief system is valid. That will, of course, require historical references (other than the Bible). It is interesting, though, that those are difficult to find. You would think that a event or personage of the importance of a messiah would have left more tracks in the records.
So, if you could PROVE that these assumptions are valid through good documentation, it would be far more helpful than shadowy contentions.
>> But is it any wonder that many people seem to believe what he says when his portal is structured so that he is presented as Christ to our subconscious, his face replacing the light of the Sun in the original image? Only by bringing things out into the light can the spell be broken.
So... does that mean that everyone with their face on their front page is presenting themselves as a messiah?
Perhaps that was missed because most people going to David's site are not looking for a messiah anymore. They're past that.
>> Pictures of the 7th Angel (Compare David's colour scheme with the first picture and note how Christ balances the Ahrimanic Blue and the Luciferic Red.
http://www.geocities.com/eternalindividual/Angelseven.htm
And to compare it to art created by *man* - come on... could we get a little more factual when throwing around allegations of character??!!
>> Michael Hoffman's article on 'The Columbine Matrix'
http://hoffman-info.com/matrix.html
Your point?
(We reposted that article on David's site, by the way.) [ADDITION - 4/21 - It was posted at David's request.)
>> Visit Sherman Skolnick's website for details on Farrakhan being an FBI plant.
http://www.skolnicksreport.com
So? What's that got to do with David's website???
Your references aren't holding up here when trying to liken David to whatever you're trying to liken him to. Perhaps you should READ some of his stuff. But then... facts might be dangerous to your belief system.
You'd better take the blue pill.
Thank you,
Jocelyn Savage
jocelyn@the-i.net
P.S. The first interesting thing about this post was your email address< novaliz@hushmail.com >:
Nova means (Great Encylopaedia Dictionary): a star that flares up, fades away and then disappears in a very short time.
Liz - that's just so tempting but I won't comment on it.
Hushmail -- hiding? Okay to standup for what you believe as long as nobody really knows who you are?
-----------------------
ADDED - 4/21/01
For those few who are such experts on other people's motives, and how other people come by their information, I'd like to repost just SOME of David's sources for the last three books. The reason I have such a comprehensive list is that I've been researching so that we can offer every last one that's still in print on HiddenMysteries.com We have many of them now.
So those of you that have nothing better to do with your time than bash researchers in or out of this forum: Go READ something. Put up or shut up on the research behind what you say.
Follows is an incomplete list (but close) on the bibliographies of "Children of the Matrix", "The Biggest Secret" & "...and the truth shall set you free"
"12th Planet, The";"Sitchen, Zecharia"
"A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New Orld Order";"Engdahl, F. William"
"A Study of the Social Origins of Greek Religion";"Themis? Harrison, Jane"
"Agharta";"Dickohoff, Robert E."
"Alien Identities";"Thompson, Richard L."
"American Red Cross (1950)";"Dulles, John Foster"
"America's Assignment With Destiny";"Hall, Manley"
"America's Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order";"Sutton, Antony"
"Anacalypsis: An Attempt To Draw Aside The Veil";"Higgins, Geoffrey"
"Ancient Atlantic (1969)";"Hansen, Lucile Taylor"
"Ancient History of the God, Jesus (1938)";"Dujardin, Edouard"
"Anglo-American Establishment";"Quigley, Carroll"
"Atlantean, Ireland's North African and Maritime Heritage";"Quinn, Bob"
"Atlantis, The Eighth Continent";"Berlitz, Charles"
"Battle of The Trees";"Adler"
"Behold a Pale Horse";"Cooper, William"
"Ben-Gurion: Prophet of Fire";"Kurzman, Dan"
"Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era";"Brzezinski, Zbigniew"
"Beyond Interdependence :";"MacNeil, Jim …"
"Bible Code, The";"Drosnin, Michael"
"Bible Myths And Their Parallels In Other Religions";"Doane, T.W."
"Blasphemous Rumours";"Boyd, Andrew"
"Bloodline of the Holy Grail";"Gardner, Sir Laurence"
"Blue Thunder";"Burdick, Thomas and Mitchell, Charlene"
"Book Your Church Doesn't Want- bk";"Leedom, Tim"
"Book Your Church Doesn't Want video";"Leedom, Tim"
"Brand Leader, And Investigation of Tony O'Reilly";"O'Toole, Finan"
"Bringers Of The Dawn";"Marciniak, Barbara"
"Britain's Royal Throne (1986)";"Foster, Thomas"
"British Edda";"Waddell, L.A."
"Brotherhood, The: The Explosive Expose";"Knight, Stephen"
"Byrom Collection, The";"Joy Hancox"
"Byrom Collection, The (1992)";"Hancox, Joy"
"Case Of Tyler Kent , The";"Snow, John N."
"Caverns, Cauldrons - book & CD";"Mott, Mike"
"Children of Jonestown, The";"Wooden, Kenneth"
"Children of Mu, The";"Churchward, James"
"Christ Conspiracy:, The
The Greatest Story Ever Sold";"S, Acharya"
"Christianity Before Christ";"Jackson, John"
"Communists, Klansmen and Others on the Fringe";"George, John, and Wilcox, Laird"
"Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English";"Vermes, Geza"
"Conspirators Hierarchy: Committee of 300";"Coleman, Dr. John"
"Controversy of Zion";"Reed, Douglas"
"Cosmic Connection, The";"Hesemann, Michael"
"Cosmic Conspiracy - and";"Deyo, Stan"
"Crossfire : The Plot That Killed Kennedy";"Marrs, Jim"
"Curse of Canaan";"Mullins, Eustace"
"Curse of Ignorance, A History of Mankind";"Findlay, Arthur"
"Day the Earth Nearly Died, or When the Earth Nearly Died"; "Allen D.S. & Delair, J.B"
"Deadly Deception";"Shaw, Jim & McKenny, Tom"
"Defrauding America";"Sitch, Rodney"
"Diana : Her True Story in Her Own Words";"Morton, Andrew"
"Dirty Medicine";"Walker, Martin J."
"Dope, Inc.";"Intelligence Review, Editors of"
"Double Cross : The Explosive Inside Story of the Mobster Who Controlled America";"Giancana , Sam and Chuck"
"Dragons of Eden :";"Sagan, Carl"
"Earth: Pleiadian Keys To the Living Library";"Marciniak, Barbara"
"Egyptian Civilization: It's Sumerian Origin";"Waddell, L.A."
"Emerging Viruses";"Horowitz, D.M.D., Leonard G."
"Establishment's Man";"Drummey, James J."
"ET 101";"Intergalactic"
"Extra-Terrestrial Friends And Foes";"Andrews, George"
"Extra-Terrestrials Among Us";"Andrews, George"
"Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas";"Thompson, Hunger S."
"Final Judgment: The Missing Link in the JFK Assassination Conspiracy";"Piper, Michael Collins"
"Fingerprints Of The Gods";"Hancock, Graham"
"Forgery in Christianity";"Wheless, Joseph"
"Fragments of a Faith Forgotten";"Mead, D.R.S."
"Freedom Fighter";"Dziurski, Major Alojzy"
"From Marsall Aid To Atlantic Partnership (1966)";"Van der Beugel, Ernst H."
"From the Ashes of Angels";"Collins, Andrew"
"Generals in Grey Suits (1953)";"Dubois, Josiah E., Jr."
"Geneset - Target Earth";"Wood, David and Campbell, Ian"
"Genesis Revisited";"Sitchen, Zecharia"
"Genius of the Few - The Story of Those who Found the Garden of Eden";"O'Brien, Christian with O'Brien, Joy"
"Global Tyranny...Step by Step :";"Jasper, William F."
"Gods Of Eden, The";"Bramley, William"
"Healing Shattered Reality: Understand Contactee Trauma";"Bryant, Alice, and Seebach, Linda"
"Hiram Key :";"Knight, Christopher and Robert Lomas"
"Hitler : The Missing Years";"Hanfstaengl, Ernst and John Toland"
"Hitler and the Age of Horus";"Suster, Gerald"
"Hitler Speaks";"Rauschning, Herman"
"Hitler, A Study in Tyranny";"Bullock, Alan"
"Hollow Earth Trilogy";"----"
"Holocaust Industry";"Finklestein, Norman"
"Holy Blood, Holy Grail";"Baigent, Michael - Henry Lincoln, Richard Leigh"
"Human Sacrifice, In History And Today";"Davies, Nigel"
"Humanity's Extraterrestrial Origins";"Horn, Dr. Arthur David"
"Illuminati Formula - Mind Control Slave";"Springmeier, Fritz"
"Immaculate Deception";"Bowen, Richard"
"In The Blood (1966)";"Jones, Steve"
"In the Minds of Men: Darwin and the New World Order";"Taylor, Ian T."
"Inside the Brotherhood: Explosive Secrets of the Freemasons";"Short, Martin"
"Is It Peace? (1923)";"George, David Lloyd"
"Jean Monnet and the United States of Europe";"Bromberger, Merry and Serge"
"Jewish Connection, The (1976)";"Goldberg, Hirsch M."
"Jewish History, Jewish Religion :";"Shahak, Israel"
"Kissinger on the Couch (1975)";"Schafly, Phyllis and Ward, Chester"
"Last Mafioso, The (1981)";"Demaris, Ovid"
"Last Waltz, The";"Longstaff, Jacqueline Maria"
"Letters From Lexinton, Reflections On Propaganda";"Chomsky, Noam"
"Lost Continent of Mu, The";"Churchward, James"
"Lost Realms";"Sitchen, Zecharia"
"Lost World of Agharti : The Mystery of Vril Power";"MacLellan, Alec"
"Magick in Theory and Practice";"Crowley, Aleister"
"Makers of Civilization";"Waddell, L.A."
"Man and His Gods (1956)";"Smith, Homer"
"Man's Cosmic Game";"Comforto, Gulianno"
"Matrix II";"Valerian, Vladamar"
"Message Given to Me by Extra-Terrestrials, They Took Me To their Planet";"Rael, Claude Vorilhon"
"Mind Control and Ufo's : Casebook on
Mind Control and Ufo's : Casebook on Alternative 3";"Keith, Jim"
"Missing Links Discovered In Assyrian Tablets";"Capt, Raymond E."
"Missing Links Discovered in Assyrian Tablets";"Capt, Raymond E."
"Montauk Project: Experiment, Thes in Time";"Nichols, Preston with Peter Moon"
"Montauk Revisited: Adventures in Synchronicity";"Nichols, Preston with Peter Moon"
"Monuments of Mars";"Hoagland, Richard"
"Naked Capitalist";"Skousen, W. Cleon"
"Nameless War , The";"Ramsey, Captain A.H.M."
"Obedience of Australia, The";"Jones, Peter"
"Occult Conspiracy, The";"Howard, Michael"
"Occult Reich";"Brennan, J.H."
"On Mankind, Their Origin and Desitiny";"Thomson, Arthur Dynott"
"Open Verdict";"Collins, Tony"
"Opening of the Third Eye";"Baker, Dr. Douglas"
"Origin and Evolution of Religion";"Churchward, Albert"
"Our Haunted Planet";"Keel, John A."
"Pandora's Box Volumes 1 & 2";"Christopher, Alex"
"Pearl Harbor : The Story of the Secret War";"Morgenstern, George"
"Phoenecian Origin of the Britons, Scots and Anglo-Saxons";"Waddell, L.A."
"Plans for Permanent Peace (1941)";"Heymann, Hans"
"Plausible Denial : Was the CIA Involved in the Assassination of Jfk?";"Lane, Mark"
"Population Bomb";"Erlich, Dr. Paul"
"Prince Henry Sincleair, His Expedition to the New World";"Pohl, Frederick J."
"Pyramid Odyssey (1978)";"Fix, Wm. R."
"Pyramids of Montauk: Explorations in Consciousness";"Nichols, Preston with Peter Moon"
"Quest of the Historical Jesus :";"Schweitzer, Albert"
"Ramayana of Valmiki, The (1976)";"Shasti, Hari Prasad"
"Reasonable Doubt: And Investigation Into the Assassination of John F. Kennedy";"Hurt, Henry"
"Return Of The Serpents Of Wisdom";"Pinkham, Mark Amaru"
"Rockefeller File, The";"Allen, Gary"
"Ropes of Sand:America's Failure in the Middle East";"Eveland, Wilbur Crane"
"Rothschild Money Trust";"Armstrong, George"
"Rothschilds, A Family of Fortune, The";"Cowles, Virginia"
"Sacred Symbols of Mu, The";"Churchward, James"
"Saharasia: 4000 BCE Origins of Child Abuse";"DeMeo, James"
"Samson Option: Israel's Nuclear Arsenal And American Foreign Policy";"Hersh, Seymour M."
"Satan and Swastika";"King, Francis"
"Scarlet and the Beast : English
Scarlet and the Beast : English Freemasonry,";"Daniel, John"
"Secret Gospel, The (1974";"Smith, Morton"
"Secret Teachings of All Ages - hb";"Hall, Manley"
"Secret Teachings of All Ages - soft";"Hall, Manley"
"Senator Must Die, The";"Morrow, Robert D."
"Serpent and Siva Worship and Mythology in";"Wake, C. Staniland and Clarke, Hyde"
"Shadows of Power : The Council on Foreign Relations and the American Decline";"Perloff, James"
"Sirius Mystery, The";"Temple, Robert"
"Sky People";"Trench, Brinsley Le Pour"
"Sounds from Another Room";"Horsley, Peter"
"Spear Of Destiny";"Ravenscroft, Trevor"
"Spiritual and Clinical Dimensions of Multiple Personality Disorder";"Fox, Dr. Loreda"
"Squad: The US Govts Secret Alliance, The";"Milan, Michael"
"Stairway to Heaven";"Sitchen, Zecharia"
"Star Signs - The Secret Codes of the Universe";"Goodman, Linda"
"Strangest Friendship In History: Wookrow wilson and Colongal House";"Viereck, George Sylvester"
"Taking Sides: America’s Secret Relations With A Militant Israel";"Green, Stephen"
"Talisman of the United States";"Westbrook, Charles L."
"Tax Exempt Foundations, The";"McIllany, William H. II"
"Templar Revelation, The";"Picknett, Lynn and Prince, Clive"
"Temple and the Lodge, The";"Baigent, Michael - Richard Leigh"
"There's a Fish in the Courthouse";"Wean, Gary L."
"Thirteenth Tribe, The";"Koestler, Arthur"
"Threat: Revealing the Secret Agenda";"Jacobs, David M."
"To Eliminate the Opiate";"Antleman, Rabbi Marvin S"
"Tomb of God";"Andrews, Richard and Paul Schellenberger"
"Top Illuminati Bloodlines, The";"Springmeier, Fritz"
"Tragedy & Hope";"Quigley, Carroll"
"Trance Formation of America";"Phillips, Mark & Cathy O'Brien"
"Treason at Maastricht : the destruction of the nation state";"Atkinson, Rodney and McWhirter, Norris"
"Treason in America";"Chaitkin, Anton"
"Trilateralism the Trilateral Commission and Elite Planning for World Management";"Sklar, Holly"
"True Authorship of the New Testament, The";"Reuchlin, Abelard"
"Truth Twisters, The (1987)";"Deacon, Richard"
"Ultimate Alien Agenda:, The";"Walden, James L."
"Wall Street And The Bolshevik Revolution";"Sutton , Antony C."
"Wall Street And The Rise Of Hitler";"Sutton , Antony C"
"War Against Population , The :";"Kasun, Jacqueline"
"Wars of Gods and Men";"Sitchen, Zecharia"
"Was Jonestown A CIA Experiment? (1985)";"Meiers, Michael"
"What if Everything You Thought You Knew About AIDS was WRONG!?";"Maggiore, Christine"
"What Price Israel (1953)";"Lilenthal, Alfred M."
"What Uncle Sam Really Wants";"Chomsky, Noam"
"When Science and Magic Meet";"Roney-Dougal, Serena"
"When Time Began";"Sitchen, Zecharia"
"Where Science and Magic Meet";"Roney-Dougal, Serena"
"White Goddess, The";"Graves, Robert"
"Who Killed Diana?";"Reagan, Simon"
"Who Killed Diana?";"Hounam, Peter , Derek McAdam"
"Wise Men : Six Friends and the World They Made";"Isaacson, Walter and Evan Thomas"
"Woman Named Jackie :";"Heymann, David C."
"Woman's Dictionary of Symbols & Sacred Objects";"Walker, Barbara"
"Women's Dictionary of Myths & Secrets";"Walker, Barbara"
"Woodrow Wilson: Discipline of Revolution";"Wise, Jennings C."
"World Atlas of Mysteries (1981)";"Hitching, Francis"
"World Order, Our Secret Rulers, The";"Mullins, Eustace"
"World Orders, Old and New";"Chomsky, Noam"
"Worship of the Serpent";"Deane, James Bathhurst"
"You Can Heal Your Life";"Hay, Louise L."
